i wonder if the horse will come in the next volume.
Akreon DID say that the first character to make an appearance in Volume 2 was her (and maybe Vesner’s) favourite character
it’s the fucking horse
has to be Bordeaux for sure.
Dapper, such an insignificant character that fans clothed, fed, and named.
Just like “Derpy” Ditsy Doo. XD
We must make a side off story for Dapper!
Don’t crucify me for the upcoming blasphemy, but that sounds like a horrible idea! I mean, even the Beanie is more interesting! ALL HEIL DIE BEANIE! HEIL, HEIL!
Where is Jewish Gebo?
Revenge of the Beanie
Have Dapper wear the Beanie charging in with Seven riding with Skoll on the back of the horse to Fabulous as a gift.
Ppfftt that’s perfect XD
Now we need a title!
Did somebody say… FABulous! XD
Nothing more Fabulous than this gem from Gehn. XD
I’ll never stop laughing at this… XD Its just perfect. <3
The Boba Fett of Off White. XD
Star Wars the Clone Wars gives him attention.
Thought this said “Dabber”
Anyway…. Yea It would be nice to get more of a back ground on the spirit’s just to know what were dealing with. I think it’d be more interesting if the authors brought in Fenir… or how ever u spell the wolf’s name… That’d be cool XD
Fenrir* 🙂 you just missed one ‘r’ ^_^
Plot twist twist
It’s Jewish Gebo
it’s Embla; the black human spirit.
no it’s patrick
Fifty shades of gray
NO. *slaps, Bad EFox bad!
XD Sorry, I couldn’t help it..
no matter how hard I try I will always be a useless drawings
Practice makes permanent, as my chemist teacher said!
NOTE: Everything below this thread is from the old page
Love the expressions!!
Ahhhhh the nostalgia is real! It’s an exact 2.0 of the previous page, this really makes me happy ;w;
Just wanted to give hearty congrats to Jessie and you girls before I read this page!
Existance isn’t spelled that way…
It’s spelled as existence.
Well their English isn’t perfect which they’ve said before so at least you brought it to their attention.
I remember them wondering why so many English words have “ation” at their ends. XD (they had one sentence with five of them)
Yayyyy lovin the redo!
YEE CONGRATZ JESSI, ANNA AND KATE NOW YOU THREE CAN BE DRUNK TOGETHER AND DO FUN THINGS X3
Anyway, really loving this redone page! It’s so shiny, sharp, dramaticly colored, detailed and what expressive wolf faces!
also now this comic is 100% polish, kinda.
Jess, I wish you luck with your new life in Poland! Well done on the page, ladies! Anne, Kate, how are your jobs at the legendary CD Project Red? Jess, will you start working there too?
Actually yes! I wouldn’t have moved from the US if I didn’t have a job lined up and it just so happens I got a job with Kate and Ann at CD Projekt as part of the deal. I am truly the luckiest bird lady alive!
sweet, congrats. I wish you luck and how did you manage to land that job. was the interview on Skype?
recommendation possibly from the girls. they seem to have good standing with the company and a recommendation from them would be trust worthy. =]
Concept artist? 😀
Sköll: The snow glows white on the mount tonight not paw print to be seen
A species in despiration , and it looks like i failed the Breed
The wind is howling like the frosty storm inside
Couldn’t run away, Odin knows I tried…
Iki: Don’t let them in, Don’t let them see
Be the perfect wolf always you have to be
Conceal, Don’t feel Don’t let them know
Sköll/Iki: Well now they know!
Sköll: Let it go! Let it go! Can’t stay quiet anymore!
Iki: let it go! Just let it go! Eyes glow, and bite that hunter
Sköll: I dont care what they’re going to say
Let Ragnarök come,
I stopped giving a shit anyway!
Iki: O.O Wait! What the Fenrir?
Hati: Oh, dude. I know, right?
Do we know how long they are going to be redoing pages? I love that they are revising them to match their improved style, but I’m really eager for a new page, they left it at such a cliffhanger!
Probably they want to release a book, so before we see something new, they would enhance each page that goes into it.
Yeah, what Pht said. They’d like to release the first volume in Print before they get on with the second, and went over which pages they would be redoing. You can find the complete list of planned updates here–> http://akreon.deviantart.com/journal/Off-white-update-schedule-555303469
a new page probably wont be appearing for another year or 2.
Second panel should be a wallpaper. Great work as always !
We must ask The Gehn. :D. I wonder if the Frozen crew had any idea what the ramifications would be when they made that song.
I am loving these new panels. They are so gorgeous.
Beautiful redo!!!!! I’ve been on the redo train myself. I recently finished page 76 for the first volume of my manga and now I’m redoing the first page of the 2nd chapter.
Iki is cute gorgeous, Raigho is badass gorgeous, the backgrounds are gorgeous gorgeous. Just everything is gorgeous!
Venressi, are going to take the first book offline when you print and publish it?
NUU I hope not. D:
I mean, that’ll definieyly help for sales since they’ll want to get it, but our precious comments section…
Was nuked before following the destruction of the forums.
Their shadows still remain…
Don’t you mean ‘sacrifices’?
I meant permanent shadows that follow thermonuclear detonations (since the comments were nuked), but it was definitely a sacrifice…
(Why a permanent shadow? Because I can still read the old comments)
Nope! We might add additional content to the published version but we won’t take down what’s already here.
Isn’t keeping the comic up online gonna make sales difficult, though? Oh! Have y’all decided what kind of paper your going to use for the publishing. I hate that certain printers and bad paper can ruin gorgeous art work, comic or otherwise.
I don’t think the comic being online will make sales difficult. It’s been free to read for so long it would be a really bad move to take it offline. That would alienate a lot of our readers!
We can add some additional content to the published version, like Vesner said above, kind of as a “Hey, thanks so much for buying our comic, have a few interesting goodies!” but the main story will always be free and available for people to read here.
As for the paper, there is one company another comic artist used and their printed comic came out really nicely! When we get closer to the point of publishing, I hope to contact them to see if they can give me more information. But that’s a while off yet. 🙂
THE LONG-AWAITED REDO PAGE IS COMING
Wow! Quite the improvement, looking back on it.
I CAN’T WAAAAAIIIIIIIT
I KILLED YOUR PRETTY REDO! I KILLED YOU PRETTY REDO! HAHAHAHAHaha! You coming to get me? I so need a cackle from Bellatrix Lestrange.
Moving continents is hard; they are heavy.
Nonsense Samedi, you’re just not trying hard enough! XD
This show must be cancelled. Even Phineas and Ferb had to end.
What, Spongebob? Naw! I just was watching a new episode this morning. XD
Spongebob will outlive us all.
Spongebob is eternal.
Eternally damned in the lowest pit of Hell where it has to see it’s reflection in the Devil’s arse. Haven’t been this blunt in a while. Guess my German side is having a mug of beer with my Scotch-Irish side.
New page, cool ! 😀
It’s cool for you 3 to be together ! 🙂
OH wow ;W; The horse is so pretty ;W;
congrats on the move, must have been hard moving continents
hopefully this means we can get 6 more pages by the end of the year? : )
anyway, pretty page as always. love the thick outline you did for Raigho on that closeup
Our emu has gone to a new roost. XD
Gratz on the move Jessi!
Will Jessi learn Polish lol
I’m learning some Polish but not enough to be even remotely competent at speaking it. My soft vowel-laden English tongue is not yet lizard enough for all of the rough consonant-heavy Polish words.
so are you saying your having a hard time talking to akeron and tanatha
They both speak English very well! But in reality the three of us just communicate in weird hand gestures and grunts so even if they didn’t I’d be just fine!
Is your ‘job language’ English or Polish?
Here, I found a video recreation of one of your conversations. XD
You’ll get good at it soon, after all you’re the mighty emu, descendent of the lizards dinosaur! >:D
(I’ve seen some polish words…. They blow my mind)
All I know in Polish is “yes” and “no.”
That’s okay, Jessi. I myself just learned how to trill/roll my R’s for Hebrew and I have been studying it for about year. I’m actually more used to the gutteral R as I have noticed it crosses over when ever I speak German. “Kostbare last trägst du fort.”
Don’t give up, milady! Just change your mentality! >8D
It took me a few years to trill my R’s for Spanish.At least I know I can do it for Hebrew now. ^_^
Oh boy you are stepping into a whole new world, my friend.
Aladdin: “A whole new woooorrrld….!”
Shut up, Aladdin, you pedophile! *iron domes the flying carpet….with a shoe*
We all know she actually ran across the surface of the atlantic and miles of terrain to get to poland because emus can’t fly.
Come clean Jessi. Tell us your secrets. The emu spirits have the power to walk on impossible surfaces and keep balance in the laws of physics and gravity, don’t they.
They also apparently can get shot a bunch of times and not die. XD
ARE YOU TWO TREATING JESSI WELL???
As we speak they are training her to fire potato cannons for the next time Russia sends it’s Vodka fighters.
*multiple polish and Russian jokes flood brain* AHHHHH!!!! NOOOOO!!! MUST RESIST…..CAUSING…… WW3!!!!
TELL ME THEM, SENPAIII!
*inhales* *world explodes from WW3*
I love this page! I’m glad you kept the raven and horse spirit images, those were always some of my favorite panels in the old pages.
Kate, Anna; as Poles what are your thoughts about the Russia/Ukraine conflict? Do you two think Russia might take over the country?
Damn…I need to get out of politics.
Naw man, nobody is taking Ukraine. XD It’s just a matter of the future of the Donbass and the Crimea. XD
Are we going to see the story continue soon?
most likely no. it mite be a year or 2.
Hopefully not the estimated 8 years Sky-Lily and I ended up calculating haha… I was joking in my comment, but there was some truth to the number I pulled out: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/off-white/page_5/#comment-2397866503
it mite just be, it took them like 5 or six just to get the current amount of pages.
my best guess is at least 3 years before we start seeing volume 2
but that’s just my assumption
Sorry, but I’m not trying to be critical, but there is one english mistake. Instead of saying “a unique” its supposed to be “an unique”. 🙂
It actually…isn’t, though?
‘An unique’ makes no sense? I’m not trying to be rude but it’s honestly correct the way it is.
the use of ‘an’ over ‘a’ is dictated not by the presence of a written vowel at the beginning of a word, but by the sound of a vowel at the start.
the word ‘unique’ is pronounced as ‘yoo-neek’ and has a Y inflection to the sound, so “a unique” is actually correct, while “an unique” is not.
Probably similar to “a roleplay” versus “an RP”
I wasn’t aware the sounds also played a part in “a” and “an.” I learned something! Thank you!
yee sounds play a part in abbreviations too. RP has an in front of it since R is pronounced with an A sound, like in ‘arson’ (…i couldn’t think of a better word…)
pronunciation was my only strong point in English, so weird little details like this were the only things that stuck to my brain in school ;w;”” i’m happy it turned out useful in this sense.
I’m sorry, I just thought it was like that (in the way I learned to place “a” and “an” at school ^^)
it’s a’ight! English is a very weird language, so mistakes are bound to happen.
especially our bastardized American version of english
Ikr, I know this may sound odd coming from a German mouth, but you guys don’t know the meaning of certain words. ^^;
“Unique” is used fine. I believe there is a spelling error though in the same bubble. I think it was suppose to be ‘exceptional’? Instead it is “exeptional”.
ooh there is an error there. it should be exceptional. i thought it had been a trick of the eye but the c actually isn’t there x___x
Hope you don’t mind another correction: ‘existance’ should be spelled with an ‘e’ as ‘existence’ :>
I believe this spelling error appears several times throughout the comic, but I decided to comment about it on this particular page.
Good thing they don’t need to hire an editor/spellchecker, they have us!
Free labor! Yay!
Haha, pretty much! :,>
No need to bother the wrong spell if you know the meaning of what they’re telling to us. it’s just really cute how the Author got a little about their phrase but nah i dont care as long as they’re doing the job ^_^. And hey Nice Page update!!
but they’re planning to print it, so it is important to spellcheck ^^”””
*looks at horses panel* *plays Hans Zimmer’s Spirit Stallion of the Cemaron Film Score*
Oh the nostalgia…
I hear the wind across the plain, a voice so strong it calls my name, it’s wild like the river, it’s warm like the sun. It’s here; this is where I belong.
And where ever I wander, the one thing I’ve learned: it’s to here I will always, always return.
(I can’t believe I remember all that lol).
Here’s some more nostalgia.
“You know it’s a good thing you’re taking your out on the statues, instead of the real Kuzco, eh?
That’s it Kronk! I’ll get rid of Kuzco. Hehehe….
The real Kuzco…?
Of COURSE the real Kuzco! Don’t you see? With him out the way, and no heir to the throne, I’ll take over and rule the empire.
But how is that gonna work with you being fired and all?
Only three of us know this, soon to be the TWO of us.
And I’m one of those two right?
To the secret lab! Pull the lever Kronk. WRONG LEVERRR…. Why do we even have that lever?!
Omg, now I want to watch everything and just forget about my problems.
Guys I need help with the shading. Mostly on the top of the head and the back of the ears. I think those parts look weird.
Feel free to save image and edit to show me how you guys do it
i think your making the hair long and fluffy on the ears when they shouldn’t be. besides from the very base of the ear, all the hair should be short. you’re using a long hair texture without having the long hair outlines there to accent them, so its just this “floating” texture on the upper-ish ear (mainly left one) parts and on the more back looking areas on the (mainly right) ears.
went for huskey ears becuase they seem the closest to what your trying to do.
So how do I make the fur shorter in pixels?
iam not exactly the greatest with pixel art.
so heres a tutorial describing it for one of the panels.
So unbelievably detailed, I almost couldn’t comprehend it! x_x
I like the simple shaded one, too, but the final product is outstanding.
Happy Memorial Day!
Takeru, the Off-White pup that ‘likes’ everything. Is there anything you dislike? 😉
Also, I think I’m the only one who’s ever use the dislike arrow.
I have too so… |D
Thanks for the spelling help everyone! It’s a lame excuse on my end but Photoshop doesn’t have spellcheck and my understanding of English is very….Floridian. We do appreciate it when you point out spelling and glaring grammar mistakes, though! We aren’t perfect. Much to poor Jera’s chagrin. ;>
its perfectly understandable. hell, even Stephen king admits he needs a beta to help with his grammer.
King? Pfffft! Even the mighty Tolkien needed betas (C.S. Lewis) and editors.
Yep, we aren’t perfect too, but we can help each other to fix the mistake. More power!!
ya lets not anger the wolf queen Jara. I may be a pyro but that’s one fire I don’t want to mess with.
its ok i cant spell the word carracture, caricture, keractor, dam-it! table smash*
the worst word to ever have to spell is silhouette. why is it spelled that way
As a user of Photoshop I too understand ;A; and my spelling is very….Germanic. we must remain strong
Here’s a morbid thought: I wonder what the pack massacre will look lije in ‘Hi-Def.’ Now i just thought how great Iki’s hitting on Kaya will look like. XP
And Venressi, I would like to take a moment and praise you all for how well you created the adult characters. They know what’s up, aren’t oblivious, stupid, or need their kids to teach them everything. I’ve seen too many stories make that make adults look like idiots. So thank you for taking the ‘reality’ route!
thought it would show up differently. its a cute Samoyed puppy
I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THAT LAST PANEL AHAHAHAHHA.
Some dope music for ya’ll:
I didn’t think I’d see Middle Class Rut here
The best band you’ll never hear on radio. XD
Float like a Butterfly, sting like a bee-Muhammad Ali
Yes, you’re not living in the world anymore, but you will be a Legend for us like no one else.
Don’t say goodbye, say Goodnight.
The greatest. Then. Now. Always.
im getting my first dog here soon.
heres what she looks like. I get to pick her up on the 10th
My goodness is she adorable!! What type of breed is she?
she is a Husky
Gosh I always wanted a husky! Too bad my house is too small for big dogs…
Well congrats to getting your new dog!
my apartment is a lil small but I have a bike and a lot of hiking trails and bike trails. I am a active outdoors mas and I work nights so I have the entire day to play.
Well remember that the dog hasn’t had a real walk, if its not allowed to stop all the time and sniff around.
A dog uses more energy and gets more satisfied if its allowed to walk in its own pace, and smell everything around it c:
You have my blessing to help you caring for her, hope she will be happy to be with you.
Dapper in his final form, on that third panel.
If Raigho and Nick Wilde had a contest on who is more handsome, Raigho would win.
depends. akeron, tanathe, and Jessie should do an off white style version of nick so we could do the contest of who is a more handsome pup
Ooooo they should
meanwhile at ow studios iki is being jealous in his trailer
Venressi, please grace us with a digitally-generated image of the sneaky fox, Nick Wilde.
….oh God what the furries have done with him.
Nick’s pretty smooth, I dunno. 😉
Okay, I read some Norse mythology, and Hugin and Munin are ravens, not crows.
They’re referred to as ravens in the comic, too.
Page 85 names the flock that Iki gets distracted by crows. I haven’t seen a single mention of raven in yet when flipping through the pages.
Haven’t seen Munin or Hunin get addressed as a specific corvid though,either. So they’re likely ravens as they are, while the normal birds that report to them are normal crows.
he called them crows because he was being a derp. followed by walking off a cliff like a derp.
also yes hagun and munun did get announced by haiti
I mean someone calling them ‘ravens’ by word of mouth, not being seen or mentioned by name.
I was flipping through the pages to try and find where the OP of this string got the idea where they weren’t ravens LOL. Save for that page where Iki calls them crows they’re either referred to as birds, winged messengers, or Hunin and Munin are referred to by name.
http://off-white.eu/comic/page-215/ Op! There’s your wordly confirmation.
Also remember that the page you’re referring to is a rather old one that has been marked for revamping.
Oh. I definitely didn’t read that page right. I flipped through every one. Must’ve somehow completely missed the wording.
Thank you ;w;/
Not a prob~
Then shouldn’t the fact that the Hugin and Muni look like ravens matter more over the were called crows by derp Iki who had about as much know how as your average teenager? Ravens.
Jaysus you guys seriously can never stop and think that some people may prefer written word over visual confirmation, can’t you? Fine. Fine. I’m gone.
There is Iki’s stupidity to take into account too. So…yeah.
I think I can feel some of Iki’s frustration from page 25 when people use his supposed stupidity to explain away something. I’ve been pointed to 215 which points them out as ravens. There’s no need to drag out this issue when it’s been dead for 8 days man.
I think I can feel Iki’s frustration from page 25 in regards to people using his supposed stupidity as an explanation for things. In some cases it does work, in others…it’s just kind of annoying and isn’t what people are asking.
Well it is not that fact that what is preferred, but rather the fact that it’s weird that instead of using self discernment, we need to go to some outside source or another just see what is what. You’re going to get mixed results that have less chance at being true vs what you are observing for yourself, because Oh Hi, Internetz!
i just had a dream where the authors decided they wanna redo everything one more time except this time they wanna animate their comic themselves and they showed us a sample they worked hard on except it’s a deleted hunt scene (i think.. it’s still deleted in this redo, right?? xD;; )
and we were like owo;; … ok see you in 20 years lol
alright i’m out~
i just graduated high school. my bad english is official now. yaaa!!
Sorry for my bad Congratulation
*eye twitches* Must resist…grammar Nazi corrections…..
Idk why but I feel like this song would fit so well with this comic
This song is so depressing and heartcrushing. ;~;
It is isn’t it ;_____________;
Pray for Orlando, everyone… This count may be inaccurate but fifty are dead, fifty two wounded.
Good god what is the world coming to?
First Christina Grimmie and now the Orlando shooting, I’m so sick of it all.
How can people even be capable of such awful things?
Humanity needs to sort its crap.
This is my perspective. People are awful because, at our core, we’re not good people at all. We know how to do good, yet are capable, and often, do bad things (and I mean even small things like jealousy, being angry at someone for know real reason etc.). And for some individuals that evil can manifest itself into unspeakable horrors.Thankfully, not everyone is like that. Just thought I’d give your question an answer. Sorry if it ain’t eloquent. XD
It’s strange how people come together when disaster strikes, be it a massive flood, murder, a terrorist attack, anything. There’s sadness yes, but it’s times like this when we are challenged to come together and support each other as a community. The Charleston shooting is a good example of this. And I hope for the same unity for Orlando.
That’s actually a very good answer, I know I’m not generally a good person but I just…I don’t get how someone could do something so horrible. I guess it’s just the way things are – can’t have good without bad, at least at times like these we get to appreciate the fact that we’re all lucky enough to be here, everyday, to wake every morning and go to bed every night. Those poor people had it all unfairly taken away from them, and the only thing there is left to do now is to band together and try to actually make a change.
Its been like this throughout all of history and it absolutely sucks, people suck.
Maxim do you still have that drawing of Terrorist Sköll vs. Jewish Gebo? Can we make Gebo a Rabbi now? Oohh…what about Sanheidran Gebo?!
Never before has this site been as dead as it is now.
Pretty much, yeah.
I’m hoping that we get back to our usual update speed soon (One every two weeks or so?). I understand the difficulties with moving continents though. We fans have survived three month hiatuses, so we shall persevere. ;-;
I’ve been wondering how large exactly the expenses are for moving continents. ‘o’
im actually wondering the same
Mmm, not sure exactly. What is there to factor in? The update made it sound like they are all literally living together in the same house (though I could be wrong on that, lol), which could minimize residence costs. Work visa and a (several hundred dollar) plane ticket might be all. I don’t know about Poland’s citizenship process. Of course living expenses are a thing too.
Ehh, I just hope it’s all going well for them. (: Polish is a bit of a tough language imo, so hopefully Jessi isn’t having too tough of a time with that on its own.
HA HA HA LOL”regular updaters, two weeks” this guys dreaming.
I can dream. 🙁 I remember a time when it was like that for a couple months, and I assume that would be what they wish they could do. Their jobs and moving are time consuming though, understandably. As Guest up there pointed out, (though no hate on the artists), I have to admit that it doesn’t seem like patreon has done much (yet. It is kind of recent too, I guess).
ive seen it go months with out an update so this isn’t really that bad.
everyone has vanished :c
And yet my voice continually echoes in from everywhere and nowhere.
where all outside playing and enjoying the beautiful sunshine and firestorm weather.
We’ve all gone underground…. Into cryostasis.
Nah, I’ll be back in like 4 or 5 days. Just gotta take care of some stuff…… Dammit, Life! You’re so impatient….like an infant! :p
I have a high freezing point.
I assure you it’s still twitching somewhat. XD
I’ve been deader
sorry i haven’t been around to stur up hell lately ive been on vacation .
holy cow has it really been two years already?
uh ya, pretty much the winter before last, right? so almost 2 years ago.
Sorry for not being active on here.
How exactly slower updates because of your moving are good news?
I think the good news is that they’re all together. All in the same time zone and pretty close to each other, so it might speed up the process of finishing pages however they divide the work. After the initial moving trouble is over I think this will speed up quite a bit (hopefully ^^).
the same thing was promised after they finished collaborating on The Witcher’s game as well as setting up the Patreon with now generous monthly income
and yet here we are…
It may stem from the creators feeling pressured into promising better update schedules for their fans; completely understandable, but as you pointed out, inaccurate information. I think an officially declared monthly update schedule would help the newer members of the community know what to expect, as well as take some stress off of Venressi.
At least maybe once a month; that way, should something come up, they could have a page already done or mostly complete in advance. If they complete several pages, they could maybe schedule an update so they won’t have to worry so much over a few months, and slowly work on other pages when they can. Eventually, they could get to two a month, and back up to speed when life is more forgiving.
I really don’t see this comic ever getting back to twice a month. The artists don’t seem to have the same enthusiasm about it that they used to. And before anyone takes that the wrong way, I don’t mean it in a bad sense.
They have lots of work, they’ve moved together. They are creating new things. As a writer and artist your interests can move to new ideas.
The fact that they put up a patreon to even continue Off-White shows this is more of a job than a hobby. They even said without the support they’d have stopped it. If you’re really passionate about something, you still do it whether or not you’re being paid (think of people doing sports on weekends).
It’s nice that they gave us the option to pay for it to be continued, and that they kept up the beautiful level of art in each page, but in no way do I feel the same multiple-pages-a-month, hobby-like passion coming from this anymore.
Maybe one day their passion will become like a volcano destroying the landscape again. ;-;
that was a terrible analogy wasn’t it
It could definitely happen, but I don’t want to raise my hopes up when we keep getting false promises. Nothing personally against the artists at all, they’re super busy with the witcher’s blood and wine update, but it does kinda get disheartening. It’s be better to just have an honest news update.
I think you might be right about it being like a job. On the other hand I’ve kind of wondered if the artists really want to continue this comic for two more volumes or at all. It might not be that extreme (long updates don’t immediately equal not wanting to do it), but yea I don’t feel the same energy either. I would be good to get an answer from them.
Yeah, it almost doesn’t make sense to continue it. I love the comic, but at the rate of 1 page per month, it’d take 7.5 years to redo the ~90 pages left in volume 1. Are they really gonna keep caring about it in nearly ten years? Enough to jump on a second and third volume, to finish the story? I just don’t see it.
They actually might even be better off selling it, to people who do still have a passion for it. There are a lot of younger artists online with way more spare time to make comics like this too. Full-time jobs siphon away nearly every ounce of freedom, especially when you have a place, pets, family, and friends to watch over too.
Damnnn, we did the math and that’s what we got? If it’s about eight years for 100 pages, and they estimate the other two volumes would be about 300 pages each, that’s 48 years AFTER the 7.5 for the redo. 55.5 years, assuming there aren’t any large hiatuses.
… Well then.
Which is why I think they should just sell it. XD Some of us probably won’t even be alive in 55 years. Plus it makes money, over $300 per just one page released? A small high-school or college team could easily work with that.
Ha, you wish it were twice a month, but do you even remember the time when there were updates once a WEEK? Sometimes even twice.
and honestly i’m not bothered by it (the “drought”) anymore.
there are plenty other fish in the sea, and life happens.
i just wish if they honestly realized one day they don’t have the time or passion for OW anymore, they could at least consider doing what another webcomic did before they dropped it. I think it was called Tea House or something. They basically published the written outline for the rest of the story and how it ends. And gave their audience a chance to ask away any kind of questions they have before bidding them farewell for good.
I thought it was a good move to at least not leave their audience hanging for so many years when the artists of that webcomic couldn’t have the time anymore for this project/hobby.
it’s sure gonna be sad if it came down to this for OW, but again, it’s better than leaving us hanging and leaving them (authors) always trying to find time to work on this almost-free project.
everyone is equally (un?)happy x )”
Depends on if their jobs will let them have the time, too. Last time they poofed for a long while, they were working on Witcher 3. Seeing as Jessi’s also got a job in that sort of department, I think there will be lulls of inactivity during busy/stressful development project cycles.
I sense thee is missing the point.
RIP the UK as part of the EU. 1973-2016
This World will never be called “World” in the future T_T
I truly fear that this may be the beginning of the end for the EU. Lets hope the rest of it can stay together.
Now if only Germany would sucede. At least then they could throw Greece off their backs. Britain is in for some hardship, though. Now they’ll have rebuild their economy from the ground up. But they did a good thing in keeping national security a top concern. Britain doesn’t have the resources or land to provide for refugees that they couldn’t keep from entering their borders under the EU. Hard to forge such a union when none of these countries have nothing common. Much like the States in our ‘union’.
The damnedest thing though is that the Brexit won’t change anything about their refugee situation or the borders! Aside from it taking 2 years to fully leave the EU, if they want to maintain trade with Europe, which is by far the most important sector for them, they have to abide by the EU’s rules… They essentially have to keep all of the rules, with none of the say in how they are made. Not to mention, the UK was always our decisive voice in the EU…. Without them, our influence has taken a massive hit. The geopolitical ramifications are massive Artista… Now strong action may be forced to compensate where soft power once dominated. This is going to be a volatile age. That’s what I mourn for.
Well done, UK for succeding from Europe. But hard times are ahead. Respect, cousins.
Lol, well done?
The country’s gonna go to hell from here on out. Our own government lied to get people to vote for their campaign and then simply stated it had been misstated.
No, you don’t misstate something as important as this, if it had been a mix up then why not correct it BEFORE the vote? Not to mention a bunch of dying old opinion-stuck men and women got to vote for our future, something they will not be a part of.
I’m just waiting for Scotland to rise up and leave England behind, the majority of us Scots didn’t vote for this. The only good thing that has come from this is David Cameron resigning, and even that I’m sceptical about because that leaves the job open for the likes of Boris Johnson and Ian Duncan Smith.
Also, R.I.P to those in Japan who have thrown themselves in front of trains because their lives are now ruined.
Yeah, well done UK. Great job.
As soon as I saw how the demographics voted, I started worrying about Scotland and Northern Ireland splitting. It kept me up all last night. This must be how the Soviets felt when they saw Poland left the Warsaw Pact.
Scotland would now be better off splitting from England.
We benefit a lot from the EU, it was England’s choice to leave.
I am left greatly concerned for the world as we know it.
Something has to change.
Is Scotland still able to leave after their vote to remain in UK?
carful artista this is a flame war subject.
Okay, I’m sorry for sounding so rude and ill-tempered, but… please stop talking about politics. For the love of fuck. I am so tired to seeing political debates here. It was fine one in a while, but not it’s a regular thing every. time. I. come. here.
I’m really sorry for sounding totalitarian, but I am just so tired of just finding politics in the comment section.
Okay, I don’t normally rant about things like this but L.o.l., holy sh*t, since WHEN did people think it was okay to rant and rave about politics so damn much in a webcomic?
Like if this was something that was discussed in brief respectful spurts maybe that would be fine but over the months I have only seen the comments section slowly become dominated by very political voices cawing over highly controversial subjects when I’m positive that at least half the community came here to read a comic about magical wolves. I’m getting so sick and tired of it. If these were thoughtfully done discussions between people who understood that everyone has different points of view instead of just jumping into the fray automatically assuming that their opinion is the only right one– which, fyi, will often result in backlash– then maybe I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But now this is just getting way too f*cking ridiculous. If it’s not about presidential nominees it’s about the economy or border regulations or I-hate-Obama. There are plenty of places on the internet to discuss this, far more appropriate places. Shouldn’t we be more focused on offering support and condolences to everyone who’s been and/or being directly affected by all the crazy sh*t happening? Be it mass shootings, natural disasters, or huge political decisions, now seriously isn’t the time for using these instances to prove points.
I would personally like to state that anyone in the UK/EU having to deal with all these changes has my sympathy. I know life is going to feel scary and get crazy from all this and I wish you all the best.
As for me, I used to enjoy getting on here to see what everyone was up to and, haha, get this, escape for a little while from all the stress in our real lives while waiting for what I assume will be an update in like, August or something I don’t know or care anymore. But as things stand I plan on taking a long break from here, website and all. I’ll know there’s an update when I see this current page hit my deviantart inbox, and that’s good enough for me.
Y’all have a fun time.
bye the way on this subject or irrelevant discussion we do actually have a skype group, Off-white/ other random awesome rambling, thats been around for about 1.5 years now, where fans can rant to your hearts content. the whole reason we created it was to move most of the irrelevant discussion between friends off the main site.
Sorry Sky Lily.
So I’ve been feeling horrible about kindling and fanning fires throughout the day to where people are retiring from site for a season I thought I’d attempt to make some comic relief. My apologiee to everyone for opening my big mouth and disturbing the peace. Gebo, Raigho, and Sköll are upset as well. 😉 I’m gonna have to run to Russia now, or Antarctica.
Lol. I’m to blame as well. We discuss politics too much Artista. XD We gotta take our conversations to the dA Forums. We’ll make a speedy getaway! XD
I love how Gebo always has that unsure/shy expression. XD
I think this comic’s officially dead.
nah, normal times for comic updates are after 3 months. we were just lucky with those 1 month ones.
to try and help lighten the mood, please have a look at my UV map fail (layout turned out crooked so the black of the right eye isn’t in the correct spot)
how did you do thing
Sold my soul to the deer ticks that live out in the fields not far from my apartment complex.
i can’t believe simba hanged himself
He was waiting for Off White to update.
(excuse my incredibly long rant)
i have to admit, iam getting tired and frustrated of waiting.
i understand that this comic is free, i understand they have actual
jobs to focus on, i understand that this isint there main thing and this is a side project, i UNDERSTAND that they cant post a page once a month.
but eventually facts have to be faced, people just don’t want to wait 3 months for A page to come out. the story is just simply limping along at this point. updates on whats going on would help. talking to the community would help.
but if all the talking thats happening is news every 6 months. and promises of
faster updates that only go on for A month. then absolute silence, then it makes everything still seem dead.
and with a possible NEW page not coming out for another half year. its tiring to wait.
YES I KNOW i can leave and come back for updates. thing is though, ill be waiting for possibly 10 YEARS for the new vol to see the light of day hell even more. id probably forget about the comic in that time.
it has been shown in other comics that despite all these issues stated above they have still been able to continue there comics with at least a monthly update. even being quite active with there fan base. WURR, bloodstain, Africa, asmundr/ home.
Bloodstain itself even went through exactly what off-whites going through. a revamp of art, but still got fixed AND published in a timely manner. It only posts maybe once every 2-3 months, but because the author is so active in the fan base by talking, posting previews, or just little art of the characters, it doesint seem dead at all. Making the wait more bearable for the fan base and allowing the fan base to gain and grow fans.
fans can only wait so long in silence before it gets frustrating. fans will get tired and move on. new ones will come in, but if the comic and authors continue staying dry for long periods. the comics life blood is just gonna shrivel away little by little. this comic used to get thousands of comments easy. now look, barely past 200 after 2 months. the fan base is dying and that’s the bread and butter for a comic. unfortunately i agree that they should sell the comic to someone with more heart.
even the authors seem tired and stressed from worrying about this project. they want to move on, but they don’t just want this huge project they’ve dedicated so much toward to just die off. with the $300 there getting from patreon they could probably pay someone to draw a page, or maybe even just run the site to give news and updates to help this place feel alive during the dead parts of the months.
The huge issue that happened a few years ago that had many fans emailing, messaging, and even spamming the crys for help across there multiple art pages just seemed to go unnoticed for so long. This isint something good. No matter how busy you are, you cant just abandon any page to its own devices. I can understand that they didint know what was going on and so they wouldn’t have known to check messages, HOWEVER it happened TWICE. They fixed it once, and just left the page again. I would expect at least ONE of 3 authors to check in a few days after to see if everything is still going okay. Again though, fans spammed there pages and messages for help and wernt heard for another few months.
Which brings up the patreon page. I feel it would have gotten much more attention if this comic just didint seem to be limping along and the authors actually seemed alive here. If I see a comic that only updates every 3 months, but promises to do more if I pay, I feel very wary of that. Just like with whats happening now. There have been so many authors that do this, only for nothing to change, or to out right cancel there project or idea and with all the fan paid money just disappearing with the dead project. With a long history of this happening, people are very cautious, which causes a dilemma.
-People want more updates, but not everyone can afford it.
-faster updates cant come without the money.
-People mite not want to pay if they see the comic only updates
every 3 months.
“so paying people get updates faster, cool. Oh, … updates only
happen every 3 months? What was considered slow then??”
so it gets stuck at: no money = no regular updates = no money
everything is involved for a comic. There is a circle of life, sort of speaking, for a comic.
If a comic updates on a regular schedule it can grow fast, gaining a fans trust, allowing the author to profit more.
If a comic doesint update regularly, the author should be very active with the fan base. Answering questions, talking, maybe do a little art and post a sketch preview, something like that. It makes the comic seem less like a dying project and gets people willing to join with others in the wait. It makes it feel less like the comics just sitting in the corner getting glanced at by the author every few months.
If a comic isint updated regularly, and the author gives little contact. Whether people agree or not, things start to die at this point. People dont want to wait ages and ages for some small event to finally update. People dont want to sit in a comment/ community thats either gone till new page, left because there tired of waiting, or those last few trying to keep it all breathing for the next few months with every off topic subject on the planet.
As a comic limps, it starts to die. The authors gain less, the comic gains less, and all around the potential the comic has to get profit for the authors dies off.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND this isint to bring the authors down. This is to point out issues the comic and the fan base has been suffering for a LONG time. This comic NEEDs to get some sort of new blood. It needs interaction besides a new page once every 3 months. If it just keeps limping along like this, its not gonna last long enough to a new VOL.
– more interaction between authors and fans, and I dont mean 1
comment every news update then no more. Answer questions, talk to
people about topics, maybe bring back that monthly fanart thing we
used to have.
– REGULAR NEWS updates. 1 every 2 months would be fine. more would
be even better. Doesint have to be very long either. Just do a
sentence or two. twitter, hook it up here to show the news updates on
the main page and you’ll deliver instant news where ever you are from
a mobile device straight to the main page. Even deviantart offers
this to groups.
– GET SOME SITE MODS!!! you have a massive fanbase, especially
gehn, who was once trusted with the off white forums. Why cant we
have at least one full time active mod on here. You could probably
get someone to do it for free. And with someone walking with a mod
badge around the site, even without the author interaction they can
still give the feeling of an alive site. They don’t even need the ban
hammer privileges, just let them post things like the monthly fanart
I am just getting tired, after years of being patient and sticking by the authors side. Defending with every excuse to say why there’s no update, why there’s not much talking, why the fan base gets soooo off topic, why it takes so long, what could possibly be happening to cause such a delay, what could be making THREE authors go so slow compared to other authors who are currently having the same issues with high demand jobs such as animators, or those who are working on 3 other high detailed comics at the same time. Answering the same 5 questions of when a new update will be, how to contact the mods, and every other who, what, when, where, and why that could be solved with an extra questions page link at the top.
I am just so tired.
Sadly I agree with you.
I have tried to hard to wait for this comic, I’ve been following it for a few years now and it used to be a community, people shared comic-related discussions and had fun little jokes whilst we waited for the next page which we used to always get, now, no matter how eager you are to back up the author’s side, you simply can’t, you grasp at straws to try and act like a good fan but what is there to be a fan of anymore?
Everyone is busy – everyone has work, or school or college or whatever other occupations that may be taking up their time, but a butt-load of other comic artists still manage to keep their stories running at a decent enough pace that fans can follow along and still enjoy the story line, these artists still work, but they have passion for what they started and I’m beginning to believe that this team of artists have lost that will to continue on. I mean, for god’s sake, this comic has THREE people working on it, others usually only have one and whilst it’s true the art on here is exceptionally brilliant it just isn’t worth it anymore. The story has gone flat because of the time gaps and I’m not willing to wait 10 years to finally have it continue – I highly doubt I’ll be stuck on the internet scrolling through dead old comic forums just to find out that OW has finally returned after the longest web comic hiatus ever recorded.
It’s a huge shame, this was once a brilliant thing to be a part of but it’s on its last leg now. It has been going down hill for a long time, now it’s nearing the bottom.
I’m sorry Tankressi, but if you don’t even have the time to update your fans – and no, I don’t mean posting a quick little recap of your lives filled with false promises every 6 months – then what’s the point? Do you even enjoy it anymore? Seems to me like the whole thing has become a burden on all of you that you can’t be bothered to take better care of.
too hard*, sorry.
agreed, the excuses are running out. there used to be many reasons to back them up. but other web comic artists have caught up with there own problems such as the author of WURR finally becoming a full time animator. before we couldn’t fully use that as an excuse because she never had a full time job to really take her time away.
now that she does, shes flying past off-white despite having an animator job, giving common updates without pauses longer then 2-3 months, being ONE author for her series, PUBLISHING the books, GOING to cons to set up booths, and being incredibly active with her own art and fans.
the authors kept there promises, sort of, the updates were quick for about 3-5 updates. it just makes the promises feel like a pie crust promises.
its made and looks good at first, but soon crumbles to disappointment.
the huge event a couple years ago really changed everybody. lots of people wouldn’t tolerate it and left. any new fans that found it were driven away for good reason.
off-whites name has been BADLY tarnished and the authors carry on like it was nothing. while it was defiantly a harsh time for there entire fan base. we all had to ditch or hide in our own secret spaces in OUR OWN COMMUNITY. we never even got an apology for having it happen for SO LONG. it wasint just a few trolls over a week. it went on for MONTHS. and continued after an author cleaned it up, but didint bother to check in or really reply to any of our pleads for help. allowing the issue to continue for another few months.
all we got was a “we were busy, that’s why we were gone. :)”
its like they continue it because they don’t want a project to die, but they’ve lost all motivation. they were on it when they finally gain the motivation, or basically feel compelled to do a page. not really because it makes them happy anymore. its not the perfect baby anymore, its just that kid they wish would grow up already so they can move on with there life.
Basically, I’m sad to admit it, but I totally agree. I’m sick of excuses, don’t feel the artists care or love the comic or us, and I feel like this is nearly pointless now. I also want to five a shoutout to Lackadaisy, another webcomic with one artist that has fan-fucking-tastic artwork and has its shit together. Updates consistently once a month, plus fun artwork on the side. Ffff.
another great one is zoophobia. =]
I’m currently waiting for a new page. ;-;
I think you know I’m one of the most triggered people when it comes to these matters, but I actually agree with you. I’ve already lost interest in this comic because of the slow updates. It just becomes so dull after so much time without news.
Honestly I feel like it has become a burden for the authors instead of something they enjoy. But if they do still like it, I don’t feel they really have that relationship with the fan base, shall we call it like that. It feels like they don’t care about their fans. I don’t believe they actually don’t give a shit about us, but that’s how I feel, that’s how they make us feel, which is practically what really matters.
With the occasional hiatuses, I tried to always defend the comic even though I myself wasn’t so sure, but now I feel as betrayed as you.
yeah, i used to be super protective too and angry when people went against the authors, but now. it just keeps happening over and over.
the excuses and pie crust promises come. the older fans defend them against any newer or even other older fans who were getting tired.
now its just … why am i still defending them? ive been reading so many other comics that were incomparable to off-whites reasons, but now those authors and there comics are leaving off white in the dust.
its sad to say, but its like this isint a loving project anymore, its just the small money maker now. fans dont matter unless we give money. after we cough up a certain amount they go “okay, guess we’ll post a page, its been a while.” the fans dont seem to really matter, were just sorta “there” to them. they make false promises and give speedy updates now and again to get us back long enough till the next false promise. the promises just arnt working anymore after the 4th pie crust.
i actually find myself forgetting off white, till shop or tak mention it in our Skype group.
You guys have a Skype group??? O: I was not told
we still have one, but its just for my comic now and personal talk, wanna join? :3
ya b lol
just give me your skype name and ill add ya. =]
okay i think i sent the invitation to you. XD
100% agree. Kique works for what, three or four websites? Constantly making art for them, doing commissions, managing a long distance relationship, not to mention family and friends and the stuff everyone else has to deal with. He doesn’t get nearly as much on his Patreon last I checked, and yet he still keeps up with his fans both on his site and on Deviantart. And he’s one single person.
I really defended this comic when it was purely free, but now that they basically get $100 short of monthly rent for each -page- released.. I just can’t do it anymore.
The slow pages released are totally understandable, but the lack of communication really isn’t. Three people and it seems no one cares asides the sentence per two months about promising to change, and never doing so. Honesty is the best policy. It’d be much better if they just flatout said it’s gonna update once every 2-3 months, made a few years hiatus, sold it, or if they abandoned it and just gave the plot.
Heck, get rid of the stickers and letter rewards on Patreon, put those in a shopping area for even more money, and just use the time to mail 30 things into the comic itself.
Again, before, 100% on their side. But when you know the value of a dollar, $300-400 a page for near-zero interaction is inexcusable.
heck if they were smart about, this is the worst way to go. which supports the reason of they just don’t care anymore.
all the stuff there giving away like preview sketches they could give for free on here as previews. if they actually talked to the fans they would be much happier to hang around here.
if new comers see a happy fanbase and active authors DESPITE such rare updates. the fan base WILL grow, in turn = MORE merchandise bought and MORE money made. they could even increase FREE donations on there patreon. you can buy custom pins for .75 each and sell 6 easily for 7-8 bucks and make a killing off just those.
there taking the short cut with moving previews and merchandise to the patreon.
why should i bother buying merchandise for a comic that updates once every 3 months, and the authors don’t seem to pay attention enough to say more then a sentence.
“OOOHH boy, i get a preview 3 months early!!! and merchandise to help get a page up faster … wait, faster then what time exactly??” its just choking the fans.
i get theres also the “support the artists.” but man, i just really don’t care about them anymore. they just don’t seem to care. the only thing i really care about is maybe seeing the end of this comic this century.
YOU ARE KILLING YOUR FANS!!! WE UNDERSTAND YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY!!! but hell, this comic has sooo much potential to be popular and rake in the money. if you guys had regular updates and got the first VOL published there would be so many fans gained to pour money in. you could probably live off of off-white VOL 1 alone.
Yep, there’s infinitely better ways to help both themselves and the comic.
I don’t think all three could live off it. Life is way too expensive. However, one artist definitely could. So let’s say $350 a page, pages take a while to make cause detail.. that’s $1400 a month for four comic pages. One a week. If they managed to squeeze five in, that’s $1750 a month. Add any commissions, and bam, one person paid for.
But like you said, if they actually interacted with fans and brought new life to the comic, they’d probably get a lot more on Patreon.
thats just based on pages/ book.
just imagine if they spread farther into merchandise. especially small things like pins which easily get $3-4 profit.
stickers you can get custom for .75 each. sell for 2.50 and you get a 1.75 profit. just imagine with a actually growing huge fan base buying larger stuff like posters, cups, bags, binders.
they have the stuff, but no one to sell it to because they drove everyone away with there carelessness.
well said, friend.
like i suggested before, if they can’t keep up with this free webcomic then just share with us some sort of text outline about what’s the rest of the story is like and how it ends. give us a month or so to ask any and every kind of question we have. then end the comic for good and move along.
i’m not even sure and won’t be surprised if ONLY the patreons are getting the updates on patreon and they have to be super ulta extra hush-hush about it, lol.
but honestly, if that was the case at least please be transparent about it. say we must pay to see instead of leaving us in the shadows. i asked them a few times about patreon before i make a decision to support them or not. of course, i am yet to get ANY kind of response.
if even money doesn’t work, i don’t know what does.
unless they’re timelords, even the authors themselves might not see the end of OW in their lifetime at this rate. they can at least consider dropping the quality a notch for the sake of a faster update. quantity over quality, let’s be real here.
i wish there would be any… ANY kind of communication at this point? busy with The Witcher again? please, just a 3 letter BRB update would do. is that too much to ask for a loyal looooongtime fanbase??? what’s the point of making and sharing this comic if not for a fanbase to engage with? are they sharing it with the ether or something????
sometimes i tell myself “oh i bet they’re stacking soooo many pages they’re gonna surprise us with daily updates! they don’t wanna ruin the surprise yet! that must be it!” but then… nah… idk anymore….
//grumpily sets in a corner, reading other almost-daily webcomics….
like, man… i think that makes a 4 false promises in a row by now?
1-addition of a 3rd artist
2-done with The Witcher
4-3rd artist moved continents just to live with them so they can work on OW more smoothly
months later, and…. still nothing.
*cue “Why you always lyin’~~~” vine here*
5. We’re just recoding the website sorry 🙂
6. Oh our computer melted sorry 🙂
Anyone remember any further back into OW history? I feel like there’s more to add.
those can be excusable because they did deliver.
the new website up now, and a picture of the melted computer that literally caught on fire. the fire happened ages and ages ago though.
worst part is that talking them is a $5 patreon thing.
“You can talk with us and ask anything you’d like!”
first of all, i shouldn’t have to pay to talk to you. this thing makes zero sense. NO OTHER AUTHOR does this!!! know why?? because its an insult to fans.
this screams, “don’t talk to us unless your gonna hand over your wallet. otherwise don’t bother.”
no wonder none of them really talk to us, ITS BECAUSE WERE NOT PAYING!!! were only allowed a limit of like one free talking news update.
tbh i don’t mind that if this was the case, but even money doesn’t seem to work.
what else do they want if even money doesn’t do it….
Yeah, now that you mention it, that is pretty awful.
$5 for previews is good, or bigger pages or whatever. But just to talk? Kique doesn’t charge anyone to talk to him.
They could also do a $20 option, not sure why one wasn’t listed. $10-50 is a huge jump.
Free – speaking to fans
$1 – good for adblockers
$5 – bigger pages
$10 – previews and maybe WIP vids? + all above
$20 – pins/posters/etc. + all above
$50 – the traditional art thing
^ derpy suggestion
live streams are also a really good suggestion, tutorials EVERYBODY would just die for.
one persons making $3000.00 A MONTH just on her tutorials.
Honestly, shipping stuff out will just take them more time, imo. It would be nice if they could do both, but we want updates mainly.
thats when they balance out prices. more stuff = more money. if you feel the moneys not worth all the packing then make it so.
if you get people to pay 300-500 every 3 months for some sort of mega loot crate, you’d probably be happy to pack it.
patreon also allows subscriber limits for rewards. like only 10 people can buy the loot crates. =]
it’ll take time to pack, but raking the money in will leave them stress free of bills and worrying about work.
I’m torn between taking your stance, as quite frankly I’ve grown too tired of waiting around here, or being the good, loyal subject as always.
Oh good grief are we going to bring out the tired old argument and get a slew of rants of the update pace again?
This whole issue is a dead horse, and I’m actually appalled at some of the people being mad about it since some of them have been here for so long they should know better. The lack of updates literally is not as goddamn complicated or construed as some of you are making it out to be and it’s absolutely disgusting how entitled some of you are sounding.
Plus y’all have told off people whining about the lack of new pages for years and to just ‘leave’ if the pace is so annoying, yet it’s completely fine if you come round and complain about the same shit? That’s some double-standard there, m8.
By christ if this is how the comment section’s gonna get, just politics and entitled people on the internet whining about the lack of new pages, then I’m just sticking to checking the home page for updates because this is getting ridiculous.
The old rants made no sense because the comic was free.
Now it makes near $400 a page.
Let’s put this into perspective. Water for a month is $35. Electricity for a month is $200. One single page pays for an entire month’s worth of electricity and water (depending on where you live). And for that, we can’t even get weekly little headcanons, or fanart, or just comments? How is that being entitled? If it were making zero money, I’d 100% agree with you, but that’s not the case. FAR from it.
yes, fans are entitled when their money is involved.
calm down, have a snickers or something…
this isint being entitled.
is asking for a news update once every 2 months demanding? having an actual mod protecting the page from trolls posting porn for MONTHS demanding? hell no, its fucking not.
whether or not people agree there are STANDARDS for web comics. artists need to be respectful to fans. making pie crust promises every 6 months is not respectful. authors are expected to help and protect there community from harassment, not just ignore it and come back all peachy happy.
yes we’re probably doing double standards, but are we not allowed to change our minds? as you said we went through this for YEARS. we stuck loyalty by the authors for YEARS.
WE ARE ALL GETTING SICK OF STICKING BY THEM TO GET WHAT?! we were hoping that after every pie crust that things would change. we were hopeful, we trusted the authors words that pages would come out faster now that X is here/ done. but it never did.
its at the point that the straws are breaking the camels back. why bother with the patreon when you isolate your fans from you and just leave the community to rot for almost the entire year.
this community used to have a lot of pride. friends to talk with, we used to make jokes, and have conversations last for days on old pages. now look, its just his poor small thing where most left after the harassment and others are trying desperately to keep this place happy and going.
but its just not the same anymore. nothings gotten better, its just gotten slower and slower after each news update. even with jessi moving nothing will change really, or at least not after the month of speedy updates.
Why the hell are people even complaining about the lack of updates and update paces? These artists, the people behind Off-White, have LIVES too! They’re busy with everyday stuff. Plus planning, drawing, coloring, editing, and writing the pages takes A LOT of time and effort. We artists and writers need time to create big projects like these, we put our everything into making our creations. And for people like these to just complain about us not updating enough has gotta be one of the most selfish things you can say to an artist, writer or not.
These people just don’t understand how much work and time goes into making stories.
problem is, other web comic artists are doing the same exact thing juggling jobs, bills, there comic and there lives. unlike off white however, they actually give some time to give a little hi now and again and make sure people aren’t getting harassed on there pages.
we stuck by these artists for YEARS. we understand where they work and how demanding there jobs are. weve been through with them through there toughest times, cancer.
and what happens to us? we get harassed for months, ignored constantly, promised faster updates that only happen for a few weeks. now there’s a patreon page that gives them +$300 per page.
They’ve always bitched about it, but seeing as the Patreon’s set up and money’s going into it it seems to give them some right to be angry and make assumptions and just act like a stain lmao. I don’t know how Patreon works and I’m poor as all hell so I can’t get myself to be mad about it.
Being pissed because money I understand, but if you’re gonna add assumptions to their character, personality, and why they are or aren’t doing xyz like ‘they don’t care about us anymore’ or whathaveyou as if you know everything about them or every single thing that goes into what they do in their day, then you’re still being an entitled brat in my mind. Adding insults to injury just makes you look like any other seething child scattered around the internet.
You have a right to your own emotions. If you feel ignored, you have every right to express it. It’s not adding to their character so much as venting how they are being made to feel. And with the complete lack of communication on the artists’ behalf, it’s more than fair. You telling people not to be able to vent is no better than if we told you that you can’t have a say in anything either because you don’t pay money. Doesn’t really sit right.
there’s a difference between healthy venting of feelings and just being a total ass. right now all i see are asses. which makes it unsurprising why the comment section’s reeked like all hell for the last few updates.
Read the comments. Most people simply want verbal updates.
I don’t expect them to be able to release a bunch of pages when they are working on the witcher. But taking five minutes every few days to just answer a few comments, maybe post a text headcanon ‘Iki’s favorite food is deer'(for example), etc. is fair game. It’s acknowledging your fans exist. Even just reblogging some fan-art would be cool (like old times), lots of people have great designs for the spirits.
Creating a patreon and collecting $300-400 a page and not even talking to fans is pretty mean. A comic page takes a long time, but writing a few sentences a week does not.
I think the major problem isn’t so much the lack of updates but the lack of communication.
exactly. if they talked more then a news update once every 6 months we wouldn’t mind getting page updates once every 3 months. or at least some sort of mod to help post updates more often.
there are better ways to ask for it than several thousand words worth of rants lmfao.
we have asked, mutiple times on mutiple pages. people have asked for more news, or preview sketches, or asked questions that were never answered. some have even sent emails that havint been answered.
so what do we do then? where do we ask if they ignore all the comments here and ignore all personal messages everywhere else?? pay $5 on the patreon to ask them a question??
compared to how much i have to pay my lawyer every time i talk to them, that’s pretty damn cheap.
comparing a comic artist to a lawyer doesint exactly work. since a lawyer tends to get you money, keep you from paying money, or keep you out of jail.
might as well compare them to a weekly therapist or a doctor.
One, that comparison doesn’t work at all. Two, lawyers have free consultations before they get to business with you, just like accountants and doctors.
Lawyers have to pay for law school debt. There isn’t an abundance of them because it’s expensive and difficult. Comic artists aren’t lawyers. If you expect any comic to flourish if an artist demands to be paid like a lawyer, good luck. It ain’t gonna happen.
Once again: if you’re taking my thinly veiled trolling too seriously, you really need to put on some glasses.
Sounds more like you weren’t joking, but now that you’re being called out, you’re trying to play it off as trolling. But okay then.
they respond to absolutely nothing. not even porn on their own webcomic pages.
please, enlighten us. what other ways we can try to have their undivided attention???
not sounding like a bunch of twats when you ask because it’s painful to read for one, obviously.
not insulting them or assuming how they feel about viewers and the comic itself with every other breath, for a second.
not starting endless amounts of arguments that have so many comment strings they’d have no idea where to start if they even had the time to bother reading any of it, for a third.
stop reading the comic entirely and move on with your lives, for a fourth.
You’re the only one getting childishly offended, to be honest. No one is calling them names. No one is screaming ‘omgz we needs the comic finished now’. Sure, there’s a bit of passion below, but it’s mostly suggestions and normal venting.
You don’t pay money, and you’re telling people who do to move on and not have an opinion. Who is the twat?
I don’t pay because I’m in immigration limbo and all of my money is going to lawyer payments and getting settled. Trust me, if I were able, I’d be pledged on Patreon like everyone else (and I’d still be telling people off.) Because the argument’s just that tired and even moreso if you guys are taking my thinly veiled trolling as seriously as you are.
We know it’s an old argument. It’s an issue that goes back for years. And here we are once again voicing it, as the straw just broke the camel’s back. We get excuses and false promises repeatedly, and feel every time that “Ooooh, maybe this is the last thing, THEN the comic will pick up yaaayyyy” and then it fucking doesn’t. What next? We’ve had a whole bunch of rants down there saying how it would be nice if they’d just be honest with us and acknowledge us, and if they don’t want to do this anymore just say so and maybe do a month Q&A then stop it all, or sell it. So many of us are long time fans who have defended them time and time again, supported them… I’m not going to summarize each rant.
“you guys are taking my thinly veiled trolling as seriously as you are…”
//posts a rant//
//gets replies calling you out or otherwise disagreeing//
“Oh I was trolling guys relax”
Now that’s rather mean for me to say, but not gonna lie you seem to be pretty offended yourself mate.
When you start paying money, then you can tell people off who actually do.
Like others said, you’re the only one being childishly offended by this. All the fans are doing is vent their frustration. No one called them names (last I checked)
All you’re doing is poking the frustrated fans around even more, then getting upset cuz we’re getting more upset.
Literally we tried all of these very noble very sophiscticated suggestions and nothing works. How long have you been around? You must be new here? Let me tell you something: WhiteKnight-ing doesn’t work either. Kindly stop patronizing other (VERY!!!) longtime fans who only are expressing their frustration with the complete lack of communication (not even the lack of comic updates, we just ask for any kind of meaningful communication)
Just please…. Sit down.
Like what lmfao?
I’ve been chalking it up to Jessi to securing her job at Projekt Red. Most likely they’re working on a new project. And Jess has a shit load of Polish and culture to learn too. I think you’re assumming too much as far as their “greed” goes, though. We need more information to make cohesive conclusion.
and if we got more news updates on what was going on we would wouldn’t we?
we still have two other artists who have the job and didint move. :
Communication is always a problem of everything. Heck, I don’t even communicate that much, as bad as it is already! XD
. One guy I watch on dA is in the Air Force. and still makes time to give his watchers an update every week or two. He even has a couple of his friends taking in questions/comments by watchers not covered in his FAQ. If he can manage that, plus his military life, then there’s no reason the girls can’t give us a sentence or two explaining their silence, or update us on their latest work, even though their working as concept artists.
I’m hardly busy in the slightest, but I hardly do anything anyway… Tell me their secret!
Then again, I am busy enough dealing with the mental train wreck I am
I know not their secret. Koday probably manages his time well, even though most of it is devoted to military stuff.
It takes three people one MONTH to make a page? Look, I love the art and think it’s beautiful, but based on their speedpaintings, it doesn’t take that long. Kique manages to do art of high quality in one or two days regularly. For years in a row. Lackadaisy does extremely detailed and heavily researched art consistently in one month. Both are ONE PERSON.
This is ridiculous. Even if one of the girls took half an hour each night, it would be faster. Twenty minutes.
theres also WURR, Africa, and bloodstain which also are done by single artists and with highly detailed art and all 3 are published.
wurr updates regularly about every 2 weeks to a month.
africa updates regularly every other week, beside her other comic.
blood stain updates about as often as off white, but the author is very active with talking to people and making art or previews in between.
Thanks, I’ll check those out. OW used to be one of my favourites, and if we stopped getting lies and no interaction it might still be, but I’ve forgotten about it for like 6 months and come back to see it’s updated like… Twice. I guess the good news is that the authors might acknowledge this shitstorm in a sentence or two update and “sorry we were busy :D”. It’s some form of interaction I guess.
“authors might acknowledge this shitstorm”
pffft *trying not to die from laughter.
Hmm, yeah on second thought… Hahaha nevermind lmao.
Another good comic is Asis. World torn apart after its people opt to kill the god. Some rebels still loyal to it and maybe wanting to raise it. Shapeshifters. Talking dog people and other animal people. Stunningly well thought out world and pretty art. It has patreon with way less support, but still updates several times a month, and the artist will answer any questions you want, plus formal Q&A every so often with drawings! Go go go!
other ones are these 4 short completed storys.
always will be:
and atirs story:
another one would be Scurry, incredibly high quality art and amazing upload rate. You should check it out if you haven’t already.
Holy cow Scurry has beautiful art-
*starts reading intensely*
oh yes ive seen that one, really good from the pages ive seen.
for anyone interested:
That looks like the Secret of Nimh cat o:
why do i still remember that
dragon, and yeah he really does. XD
oh f – memories XD
I’m reading this comic now, Remy is that you
although not a web comic beasts of burden is a really great series as well.
I’m actually reading it, found it two weeks ago. 😀
Are we back at it again with the uptight comic super-defenders?
If people want to rant or vent, let them. It does not damage you in any way, shape or form. You’re complaining about complainers, which makes you no better than the rest.
Iki: Oh Fenrir the fans are rabid again…
Sköll: Ragarök didn’t happen like I expected.
Jera: Well they could shut their mouths and send messages to DA in bulk. Humans…
Fehu: Well, you got Artisa and Rook making things bad. Seems like those humans can’t seem to relax.
Iki: I know right?! Doing nothing is like the best thing ever!
Sköll: You get laugh while watching the world freeze. I agree, my other slighted mental, yet retarted identity in crisis.
Fehu: just watch the lemmings Iki. Just watch lemmings.
Iki: Uncle Fehu, how do lemmings have babies?
Kaya: And I was seriously thinking of dating him..? I left my pack for nothing! O.O
Iki: Babe, wats wrong?
Jera: Ha! I told you! I tried to warn you, hun. *whispers* If you really want a man, I recommend Gebo.
Kaya: But he does nothing except stare.
Jera: Yes… But he is submissive. The truth is that males only think their dominant. A lady has to know how to pull the strings.
Kaya: Together, we will be the greatest In-laws in the world WHO WILL DOMINATE THE EARTH!!
Isa: Shit… Now she’s got a true demon spawn… My silence and aloofness throughout the comic means nothing now.
*everyone leaves beach shore except Gebo*
Gebo: I’m submissive?
O_O ….Omg this also needs to be a thing!! SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS A THING!! XD
Hoi-o guys, just checking in on how everyone’s doi-
I know right?
What is this from omg it is adorable
cowboy bebob series.
that’s funny and cute.
leaves for 3 days returns, what the shit happened here?
It’ll be this way until the new chapters come out. Alot of peeps decided to take a leave of absence until the remakes are finished.
Who likes my new leather trench coat?
Also, you look badass on that coat like you’re a Vampire Hunter.
Omg that’s the same thing my fiancé said!!
It seems like your fiancé had a taste about Super Natural things. #relationshipgoals XD
Hellsing Ultimate came into my mind when I saw this.
its the day walker!!
Right there! Someon-
Did i scare you? xD
Nah but it was funny XD
I might take a leave as well. It’ll a long time till volume 2 meets the digital screen.
How to cure yourself of alcoholism: only take a shot every time this site uploads a new page.
Oh dear, this was a bad time to make that joke.
Okay so I’ve noticed there has been a huge hype about how the comic barely uploads any pages and such, and there have been some arguments here too. I’m not taking any side in particular because I can see the points from both sides here. Yes, it gets annoying to wait on a page, yes, we have been loyal fans for years and yes the artists SHOULD take some time to let us know what’s going on, etc. BUT, that doesn’t exactly mean they don’t like us or that they have forgotten us. I know a lot of things have been going on in their lives and that it seems like they are making excuses not to upload any pages or whatnot, but you gotta also at least consider the possibility that maybe they’re having some bad luck on their end too, you know… I know other artists have the same problems and they upload pages faster, but they aren’t other artists… Maybe it’s harder for them to balance work, their normal lives at home, looking through the comment section to reply to people/deal with bullies, AND making the comic at the same time. I’m not saying I’m choosing their side entirely. I do agree with certain fans that have said they should hire moderators for free or something, to keep the comment sections under control (but not too power hungry) and to message us and let us know what all is going on, and of some plans and such (considering all the money some fans paid through Patreon). I apologize if any of this sounds rude to either side, as it is not my intention to sound that way, but I am being entirely honest and speaking my mind. I do not like to see everyone so angry here and threatening to leave, because this is supposed to be where the fans talk about the comic and speak their minds about other subjects, and comfort one another as family. I don’t like to see people leave like that.. Please take the time to read my comment and just think about it for a bit. As said above, I am not taking any side in particular, but rather just trying to keep the peace here as best as I can. Love you guys. 🙂
I agree, we’re being impatient about the Page update yet we didnt know what the Artists got through in their problem.
Yes, it’s always good to consider what goes on with both sides. ^_^ I’m sure they will eventually read our comments and consider some of the suggestions. We just gotta have faith and give it some time cuz we don’t know what they are actually going through. 🙂
“will eventually read our comments and consider some of the suggestions.”
we’ve been waiting 5 years for that.
Patience is key, my matey.
We can always reanimate ourselves as ghouls
Oshiete oshiete yo sono shikumi wo boku no naka ni dare (*cough*) ga-(cough) iru no
I ended up sore throat
Heya Oni-sama, about the comic you made, i forgot the name of your website XD, i like dark story thing since that is the Genre you made.
The Caretaker. =]
It seems like they do read some of the comments every once in a while (like someone got a reply from Jessi in regards to Patreon a few pages ago), they just don’t reply often. I agree with you in that maybe they are going through stuff, but that kind of ties in with one of the problems that were talked about in the big argument down there; namely, lack of communication, leading to us having little idea what’s going on, and making us feel forgotten and unappreciated. For the older fans I think this treatment is kind of just a breeding ground for anger and frustration. I hope I don’t sound upset or aggressive here (sorry if I do! D:), these were just the points we had.
– Updates on their life would be cool so we understand if they’ve had some bad luck.
– We don’t feel like one can have so much bad luck that they can’t take 5 minutes to post an update or take 20 minutes (like someone said) to work on a page while the others make dinner or whatever.
– Comparing them to other artists wasn’t to shame them or anything, it was kind of just to say how even other artists with similar jobs maintain some sort of schedule or talk to their fans even when they have slow updates too, which is fine. Maybe it is harder for the three of them to accomplish that, but we don’t really see how because we don’t get told much.
– Basically communication is what we want most, and it’s just so frustrating because it’s been an issue for soooooo lonnggggg and we seem to just keep getting hiatus upon hiatus to the point where we consider “hiatus” to be the update schedule.
But hey, kudos to you for trying to kind of keep the peace! I also agree with Fauna that an update schedule of some sort would be nice. Every six months? Okay, at least I won’t check every day with hope that maybe it updated! Again, sorry if I sound confrontational~
That’s alright, and I can see what you’re getting at and I entirely understand! 🙂 I just wanted to help calm down the angry fans and sort of “mediate” between those who were angry about lack of updates and such and those who were defending the artists, as well as the artists themselves, and ya know, just calm everyone down a bit. I don’t want to see the people here so angry and I don’t wanna see them all leave either. I feel that this site is supposed to be one of the very few that doesn’t have to have so much arguing and hate, ya know? I don’t like to see it falling apart. I may not talk on here very often but I DO read the comments very frequently and can see that everyone here is usually happy and just having a good time, and even their debates are quite civil and they don’t go off on each other or spew out hate comments like most people do during debates but rather LISTEN to one another and consider their points, ya know, and I just really enjoy that and I hate to see almost everyone so angry suddenly, arguing, and saying they’re gonna leave and all.. 🙁
Yeah, it’s really cool of you to do that. I hope that the comic picks up or there are reasons, but we calculated that it would take 55 years or so at this rate for three volumes, and that’s really discouraging in my eyes. I imagine it’s tough on the artists too. You’re definitely right about there being a lot of anger in debates. I participated in some of the big argument, and to be honest I was way too fired up in the moment. I still prettymuch stand by the points, but probably could have phrased things nicer. Anyways yeah, good on you, and lets hope this shaky fandom stays together.
With them working as concept artists, their most likely developing multiple designs, plus research. Concept artist is probably just as busy as storyboard artist.
And I thought I wanted to work as storyboard and concept artist. D:
Concept and storyboard are both busy. Storyboard is a lot of work because the story can always change.
That’s why all of my stories are in my head :3 (seriously too many to count, and not just short stories)
Able to change at will! >:D
I don’t mind the wait… I just wish they’d have a schedule. If that’s one single page every three months, I’m fine with that. If they let us know there won’t be another page the next 6 months, I’m fine with that too TBH. Concept artists are BUSY PEOPLE. What’s bothering me is the constant worry I have that the comic might’ve been silently discontinued because there hasn’t been a page the last couple months and nobody said anything.. 😛
Yep, Iki was better dancer than of us XD
Man: Dammit, get back in here Moon Moon.
Iki: No I must dance!
While waiting, I decided to combine two of my favorite things: Dinosaurs and Off-White. I know dinosaurs most likely never existed in the Off-White universe, but I thought it was a neat concept.
I might draw a T-Rex or Spinosaurus spirit later.
Looks great! Is this dinosaur an archaeopteryx, by chance? Or a feathered raptor? I’m not that well-versed on dinosaurs, so I apologize if I got that wrong! 😛
Nah, it’s fine. This one is a Dakotaraptor (One of my favorite dinosaurs)
I had to google them as I haven’t heard of them before. They do look really cool! Now I am compelled to watch some dinosaur documentaries.
*Walks in* I haven’t read the comments in a while!
*looks at comments*
Ehhhhh I’ll be back later…
Honestly get guys, I know the waiting sucks, but in the end it’s a lot better to leave a question or something and then entertain yourself elsewhere. Bitching here isn’t going to accomplish much, especially if everyone does it. The negativity is just going to make the artists want to work less.
questions are rarely answered, that includes private messages and personal emails sent to the authors. it was one of the issues of argumentation.
Welp, looks like we got our answer. Update after a month, no text. Guess not a single artist read any comments/concerns about the lack of communication, but of course they collected the $400 on Patreon. The art in this comic is beautiful, and the story is so interesting, but if the fans aren’t even worth a few sentences, five minutes, every two or three weeks, I think I’ll stick to others. It just feels like all the compliments and questions go to a wall, versus other artists who awknowledge their supporters existence. Maybe they are too good for us. That’s what it feels like. Whatever, I’m out.
The only thing i’m not happy about with the slow updates is the fact that i can’t reread everything from the beginning while i wait. Lack of communication is an issue, as well. We all understand they’re busy, but it’s 3 people working on this comic. I’m sure one of them could find the time to update us on what’s going on rather than leaving us in the dark.
Maybe I can move to Poland and be the messenger?
You’re willing to go that far?
I can be preetty extreme. 😀
i didn’t really want to get into ~the discourse~ or whatever, but honestly the amount of entitlement i’m seeing in the comments lately is really irking me. this comic has always been free to read (and i have been reading for years – not quite since it first started but damn close to it) and consistently very high quality.
i feel as though the majority (NOT ALL, the majority) of people complaining at the moment do not know what kind of commitment creating a webcomic takes, let alone one that has this much effort put into every page (which, in case you’re wondering, is a lot even for experienced artists). to get your panties in a twist over slow updates, or the fact that they’re not constantly posting about their progress, is displaying nothing but how ungrateful you are towards these artists that work hard alongside (i believe) full-time jobs/education to produce a consistently high-quality comic that is free for the majority of readers. if this was the only project they were working on i’d maybe be more sympathetic, but it’s not.
the thing is, none of the people working on this comic owe you anything – not faster updates, not consistent communication, /nothing/. prioritizing projects that pay, or not putting as much time into this, doesn’t make them horrible people who don’t care about their audience. it makes them people who (presumably) need to pay rent so they can continue providing this comic for free.
“but patreon!” i hear you cry. that’s still voluntary, though! nobody’s saying you HAVE to contribute to their patreon to enjoy this comic. so that’s a bit pointless to bring up, really, especially if you’re not someone who’s contributing to it.
tl;dr: maybe just chill? cool. good talk.
It’s not necessary for me to reply to your thread, but oh well, I thought it could add something to it. xp
In my experience of reading comics, with one that recently finished after many a long years, the artist disclosed to us, and even regretted, spending so much work on her comic despite updating weekly (gradually the updates could not be so frequent). She gave up a lot of time from training her art, having her free time, time that she felt could’ve been spent improving her skills and socializing. However, she appreciated the loyalty and sweetness of many readers (excluding the maggots), and felt it was worth it in the end, learning to make a story and managing her time. In fact, she never disclosed to us how much she gave up until the final page (I kinda assumed she wasn’t terribly busy). She was also one to regularly visit the comments and reply, and let us know when things happened. So I think she really valued the comic, moreso than work (eventually reality hits).
Another comic I read is similar in which the creator lagged behind in school and work for their beloved comic. That is great dedication, but there is a limit. (Someone died from exhaustion trying to compose songs daily; tragic end for a passionate man. Another example, my friend’s dad is so completely dedicated to his work that he essentially gave up on his own needs)
Some may know of SumikoOneeSan, who has plenty of things in life to do while working on animating. Sure, she doesn’t update long, but I think it’s… expected that she isn’t going to say a lot about what she is doing (sorry guys). People complain, but I personally think they should stop yearning and go busy themselves, since it’s clear it wouldn’t come very frequently. Of course, a little update once a month like “Hey, not much work this month, busy with building my nonexistent wall” will not put apprehension away, but it will ease that fear of unknown, the insecurity brought about by unawareness.
Now, for my input for Venressi, I think they are justly prioritizing their life first. After all, they surely don’t want to lag behind work (before then, college. Jessi definitely had a busy time in business school until December) While Off-White may be a fun project, it’s just that; a fun side. But they probably expected/assumed we understand well enough that these things come as they do. (And considering the complaining, maybe they think it’s rather strange?)
Problem is that across the oceans, we have much different expectations, ways of thinking, and values. Not to say there aren’t any similarities Even between people, there are many differences. It may be completely normal for them, and not so here. That’s where the majority of conflict arises, and since we are very different, I’d assume communication’s level of significance or appropriate amounts are different, which may be the reason why there isn’t so much. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it’s good to hear something. (I know, people get angsty when they don’t know things/what’s going on) Another thing, it’s very easy to forget less prioritized tasks when important ones come up.
By no means do I understand each side through and through, and I can be incorrect in my thoughts/knowledge, and I’m not berating anyone should you feel so. In any case, it is always helpful to consider what perspectives may be held. No one is gonna have the exact perception, nor same values, so it’s no easy task, but it’s a start, and who knows, maybe you will understand quite quickly. Just keep an open mind and let things flow in. Don’t let too much Internet flow through you though, you’ll be filled with nothing but cats and tentacles